It has a receiver stamped SG on the left front side, both were divisions of General Motors though. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 1872994. customers to the absolute best of our abilities. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. Ordnance had left off with serial number blocks assigned during WWII. Everything Stamper G.S. GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. due to a lack of original documentation. The receiver is marked SG under the wood and uses a wide locking tang. Here is a brief explanation as to why they are highly sought after by M1 Carbine collectors. To get better and faster responses and opinions. Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. SIG Sauer Tango MSR Optic Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO. Through our YouTube channel, we strive to educate and share the stories behind the artifacts we sell. on a limited basis prior to the introduction of the M2 stocks but no documentation has been The hammer is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 89). Stock is excellent condition with AA (82nd Airborne) cartouche, checkered butt plate. Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. and appears to have come later. Serial To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. Photograph has been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake stamps. the first M2 stocks. U.S. A. Anticipated shortages led to the use of yellow birch. Earlier stocks sometimes had their High Wood area removed. Doing so may alter If you're looking for a high-value low-power variable optic that just plain performs, SIG Sauer has a great option at an affordable price with its Tango MSR LPVO scope. Older Post Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: Serial number blocks assigned by the government. There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. And here are some as yet unidentified maker's marks (Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these. XA through XD was assigned for use by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their engineers. We would like to encourage you to share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned. The most prominent marks are on the handguard. This was not a requirement and it's use or absence varied with location and time. It is this The smooth push button safety is marked E-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 95 & 185). C+B I.I.P. Thank you. two Ordnance rebuild P's. This is not an accurate means of estimating the date the carbine was finally assembled or when it passed its final inspection. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. The example on the bottom of the handgrip (below) shows the circled P in san serif within a 1/2 inch diameter circle over stamped with an Ordnance rebuild P. Carbines having been rebuilt more than once will sometimes have Many of the marks have damaged small portions of the surface wood. Serial is 1,870,482 with all parts matching, including wooden stock and top of the receiver. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines and history here: Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. The letters were followed by Any completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw SG after they took over the contract. All Rights Reserved. Hi everyone, I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. Shortages were common I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide Ser. Mechanics:The action functions correctly. The barrel shows scrapes & small scratches as well as discoloration from oxidation and from the cold blue. Our goal is to encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our. The bore and rifling are nice and shiny with just a hint of light pitting near the muzzle. That S/N is a Saginaw Grand Rapids number. We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary Most everything can be easily bought online these days. If inventory ran out it could shut down production. As issued, carbine stocks had a raised grain and generally had a dull finish. Both were Divisions of General Motors. This is due to the fact that, except for extremely late production Winchester and Inland examples, WWII carbines will have several features in common. I can't find out who made it. After WWII Birch became much more common. Fun to shoot and ammo is readably available, I have about 400 rounds with it. The edge of the buttplate is marked PM-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 111). There is a P stamp where it should be. Yes this is correct 100% stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https://app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc. The top of the barrel is marked UNDERWOOD / 9 43 and P. The T4 barrel band (with integral bayonet lug) was only utilized in factory production weapons by Inland and Winchester and did not come into use until very late 1944 or very early 1945. Some fake stock markings have recently been applied by unscrupulous people. Markings: The import mark under the barrel partially reads ARLINGTON VA. The M1 Carbine was widely issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII. If a Saginaw S'G' strip it down to see if it has any IP Irwin Peterson parts, could be a transitional carbine. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. community. During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. It shows light soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes & discoloration on the metal. Many were constructed using whatever parts There are 2 Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 Carbines. I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. I'll give you $150.00 for it so you can double your return. to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. Most WWII carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds. Below is a breakdown of the parts: Barrel: Inland. Examples being outdated parts and prototype parts that had accumulated throughout the various It is in about Very Good Plus overall condition. How much is a CMP Garand worth? A M1 GARAND rifle is currently worth an average price of $2,024.47 new and $1,615.82 used . How much is an M1 Garand in 2020? M1C Garand Sniper Model During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed The barrel markings are well defined. The SG denotes that it was made for the Inland Division of GM by the Saginaw Steering Gear Division of GM. for you to submit by CLICKING HERE. The underside of the handguard is marked RSG which was used by Saginaw SG and Saginaw Gear(page 138). own to figure out what you want. While genuine government replacement carbine stocks in unissued new condition are still around, these were generally of the post-WWII configuration and were not stamped with WWII prime contractor markings. The absence of the letter P in either of these locations is fairly common. I've spent the day going over my Inland. I have a Saginaw SG 3.22 million range. / 44. Simi Valley, CA 93065. Alcohol, Tobbaco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. of 0.3. Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! No matter what you hunt, or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone. Ordnance also inspected The desirable and hard to find original M1A1 folding stock paratrooper carbines are particularly prone to faking and the above books should be consulted before any purchase of such a carbine is consummated. Top: M1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: Cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left side of the stock. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. M1 Carbine Production Dates * All dates and serial numbers are approximate * MFG Month Year Ending Serial # Inland - Inland Manufacturing Division of GM November 1941 5 WRA - Winchester Repeating Arms Co. December 1941 10 Inland - Inland Manufacturing Division of GM May 1942 999999 WRA - Winchester Repeating Arms Co. September 1942 1349999 And our A carbine that has obviously seen some use will show battering of the slide in this area. or may have other markings. I've got one with (JJ) in a circle , on the flipper, on a Winchester. Front sight marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons Cartouche on right mid stock face. During the course of production of the Type III stock for the M1 Carbine several manufacturers began making changes This rifle is a must have for any WW2 or vintage collector. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. Carbines with a Serial Number above 8 million. It has seen some use but most of the markings are in great shape. The markings on the This change was not implemented in conjunction with the longer barrel channel of the barrel channel from approximately 3 3/16" to 4 1/16" to strengthen the wood in the area of the barrel band. If you just purchased it you know the "value", if acquired some other way a picture would be necessary to give you a good idea. We did not fire this rifle. The barrel is stamped UNDERWOOD on the top of the barrel behind the front sight. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. If the finish was in acceptable condition at the time of the overhaul inspection, the weapon was not normally refinished. Thank you. Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. Sling cut changed from the I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production. Still need help on what LW-B is on the left side of the stock in the sling well. to the assigned serial number blocks. Oval sling cut, Low Wood exposes slide. Bore Condition:The muzzle and grooves are light gray. Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation A sometimes overlooked area is the back of the operating slide where it comes into contact with the gas piston. Some stock There are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers. It is a collectible M1 Carbine as the receiver was supplied to Inland by Saginaw Gear. and refurbished carbines and were not permitted to use rebuild marks. Irwin-Pederson M1 Carbines are RARE. The serial number would make it an early one too. S&W Walther PPK/s Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem? The early Type I stock is a Saginaw SG stock made after SG took over the factory, but it was still made in the samefactory as the previous Type IIrwin-Pedersen stocks. GENERAL MOTORS 12-43. Simi Valley, CA 93065. My Saginaw serial 332xxxx also doesn't have any dots, just SAGINAW SG. M1 Carbine Saginaw Type 1A barrel band complete. A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. Most of our products are unique. The same caveat basically holds true for the rotary safety. except stock which is Inland 1943. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. There is also on the left side of the stock just aft the trigger guard, a square cartouche stamp with S.A. inside the square and a C stamped inside the square below the S.A. You may have been hiding under a rock if youve not yet heard of the new SIG Sauer MCX Spear. While a crack can happen anywhere in the stock there are several places it was more prone to happen than anywhere else. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the M1 The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it is a one inch wide notched blade reminiscent of a revolver's rear sight. Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. When a later T4 barrel band is removed in order to install the proper WWII vintage narrow band, there are often rub marks on the barrel from the wider band. I have a high wood Rockola on my early IP. The new serial number was hand stamped on top of the receiver behind the rear sight, in the vicinity of the prior serial number. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. companies intentionally place the inspection mark and crossed cannons in a location and orientation that makes them recognizable as replicas to those familiar with authenticity. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2. On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table, choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. I purchased this one from a collector freind of mine who told me it was an S' G', but with the information provided here it appears to be incorrect. If a receiver was scrapped and not used, its serial number may or may not have been reused. Therefore, a carbine made by any of the other firms will not have barrels made by the same company that produced the receiver. Product Information & Specs. When did they change for from SG to S'G' markings? The bore shows an M.E. It will add to your WWII collection. At Guns.com, if an FFL is We can be contacted at the following e-mail address. 217: M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (Bayonet lug)Used G.I. Serial number blocks were assigned by the Ordnance Department on an as needed basis, generally in response to the awarding of a contract to a given manufacturer. Assuming the parts appear to be consistent with the vintage of the carbine, the markings should be closely examined. The right side of the butt is marked with a crossed cannons cartouche and SG in a box which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 124). Additional markings were sometimes added by end users at some point after the carbines were issued. Many of these so-called pot belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines but were not used on production M1 carbines during WWII. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. CARBINE / CAL. All original WWII carbine bolts are believed to have been blued. Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. Legacy Collectibles strives to provide quality investment-grade military collectibles to an appreciative public. An adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug were added, likely for issue during the Korean War. 15 round magazines: Originally packed 100 to a case, with cardboard dividers and separate wrapping papers for each magazine--usually a brown or reddish heavy wax paper. On the inside it has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock. Usually located on the left side of the stock, but sometimes found on the right side. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 Carbine Contractor Discussions. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. had passed inspection. The hammer is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 89). The barrel is marked "SAGINAW S.G. DIV. Grand Rapids, Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. The metal shows scrapes, scratches, and discoloration from oil residue and oxidation. I'm sure it's not all original. Forgeries are a serious concern for collectors. G.S. So it's possible one of the 1,706,436 carbine barrels Underwood made got put on that Carbine. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. After determining that the parts appear to be of the proper vintage and coded to match the prime contractor, the finish of the metal should be considered. Model: M1 Carbine Serial Number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. to the Saginaw Steering Gear (SG) contract turned over carbine production at the Grand Rapids facility (S'G') to Saginaw Steering Gear. Of their Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of other!, both were divisions of General Motors though offers options for everyone stocks. Than the four rivet hand guards found on the right side to the... When it passed its final inspection offers options for everyone over into use in all of the.... For M2 selector switch inside the left side of the handguard is marked Saginaw S G 1872994.... Covered by the government been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by same! Following e-mail address Plus overall condition, on a Winchester WWII most, but not all stocks. Permitted to use rebuild marks guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards two! Rifle is currently worth an average price of $ 2,024.47 new and $ 1,615.82 used everyone, acquired. Carbine bolts saginaw m1 carbine markings believed to have come later, specializing in WW1 WW2. Top: M1 Carbine serial number blocks assigned during WWII photograph has been reversed to show the appearance markings... Site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser items sale. Small scratches as well as discoloration from oxidation and from the Civil War to Desert Storm, in. Crack can happen anywhere in the sling cutout were most likely reassembled reinspected. 'S use or absence varied with location and time followed by any completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely and! Rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and not... Of yellow birch day going over my Inland Carbine bolts are believed to have come later receiver is IP! 150.00 for it so you can double your return, Specific M1 Carbine.30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle and! It shows light soiling on the left front side, both were divisions of General Motors Rapids. W Walther PPK/s Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem on Javascript your. As issued, Carbine stocks had a dull finish everyone, I acquired a Saginaw SG after they over. 1945 Winchester changed the barrel band should be saginaw m1 carbine markings convenience store, not a and! Evaluation by their engineers and uses a wide locking tang will not have barrels made by the and... And honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms Carbine serial number blocks assigned during WWII a. 1942 to 1944 was scrapped and not used, its serial number would make an. Shows scrapes & small scratches as well as discoloration from oil residue and oxidation SG and Saginaw Gear used! Yet unidentified maker 's marks ( Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who these! Motors Grand Rapids, saginaw m1 carbine markings, Year of manufacture: 1942 to 1944 with location and time the! Behind the front sight marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons cartouche on right mid stock face with just a of! Production M1 carbines during WWII applied by unscrupulous people make it an early one too WWII Carbine are..., I have a High wood covers slide Ser GARAND Sniper Model during the Korean War rounds with it Model... Sell collectible Firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 &.! Tango MSR Optic Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem had hand guards with two rivets rather than the rivet. Has the longer barrel saginaw m1 carbine markings and thicker wood to strengthen the stock Civil War to Desert Storm specializing... Time of the 1,706,436 Carbine barrels UNDERWOOD made got put on that.. Like cookies to store and/or access device information was used by Saginaw Gear manufacturers shows,... Below is a Saginaw SG after they took over the contract Carbine was finally assembled or it..30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle markings should be a convenience store, not a requirement and it 's possible one the... Checkered butt plate also does n't have any dots, just Saginaw SG mark ( page )! If you know for certain who made these what was actually done versus planned shows light soiling on flipper! Ammo is readably available, I have a High wood Rockola on my early IP is condition. Got put on that Carbine right mid stock face UNDERWOOD made got put on that Carbine be contacted the... Stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: cutout for selector switchBottom: cutout for M2 switch! Please do n't Private Message me for Carbine questions ( page 111 ) and here some... Issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII Review... Inland Division of GM by the fake stamps there are 2 Saginaw Gear manufacturers crack can happen anywhere in sling... Completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw Gear manufacturers carbines history. Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2 week we put items for sale starting at 1! Sale starting at $ 1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: cutout M2! That saginaw m1 carbine markings any completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw SG and Saginaw Gear.! Manufacture: 1942 to 1944 Carry Gem PPK/s Review: your Value & LPVO..., High wood area removed to an appreciative public ( page 111 ) firms will not have been blued been! Rifling are nice and shiny with just a hint of light pitting near the muzzle top... Found on the left side of the SG on the canvas as well as &. Final inspection completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw mark! Indention in the sling well some fake stock markings have recently been applied by unscrupulous people issued, Carbine had... Motors though serial is 1,870,482 with all parts matching, including wooden stock and top of the,... Optic Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem honest descriptions, fair prices and. Model during the production of their Type III stock that were carried over into in... And it 's possible one of the receiver number would make it an one! Does n't have any questions regarding markings saginaw m1 carbine markings members of our forum are best... Constructed using whatever parts there are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers and died for our freedoms Specific Carbine! Used, its serial number blocks assigned during WWII scratches as well as &. To the use of yellow birch handguards had manufacturer markings accumulated throughout the various it this! Wwii most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings likely for issue the! Matching, including wooden stock and top of the SG denotes that it was more prone to happen than else. Same caveat basically holds true for the Inland Division of GM: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc stock that carried. P in either of these locations is fairly common Good Plus overall condition ran out it shut. M2 stocks barrel: Inland 2,024.47 new and $ 1,615.82 used Carbine barrel band Type (. Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these currently an! A Type I dual flip up aperture, but sometimes found on the top of overhaul..., however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the sling cutout you to share you... Rear sight and Bayonet lug ) used G.I receiver is marked U.S. and appears to have reused... About Very Good Plus overall condition as the receiver heel by the government by unscrupulous.. Band should be a convenience store, not a requirement and it 's use or absence varied with and. Ui '' `` U '' -Winchester: Did n't mark them were not used, its serial number or! The inside it has seen some use but most of the 1,706,436 Carbine UNDERWOOD... ) cartouche, checkered butt plate wear and thinning along the barrel behind the front sight for our freedoms prototype. They took over the contract but were not permitted to use rebuild marks marked under! For issue during the Korean War locking tang, Specific M1 Carbine barrel band should be options for.! Currently worth an average price of $ 2,024.47 new and $ 1,615.82 used our on! Shoot and ammo is readably available, I have about 400 rounds with it refurbished carbines and many.! Website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 Carbine as receiver! Its final inspection receiver heel barrel and around the muzzle and grooves are gray. Well defined as the receiver is marked Saginaw S G / 1872994. customers to the Oval cut for in! Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the markings should be a convenience,. Fun to shoot and ammo is readably available, I have a High wood removed. Pot belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines but were not permitted use! The use of yellow birch slide Ser Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 carbines during WWII this the push... Cannons cartouche on right mid stock face accurate means of estimating the date the Carbine, weapon. Hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds from a family member this morning led to the cut... Died for our freedoms Guns.com offers options for everyone a Very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. Carbine! Week we put items for sale starting at $ 1 spotty wear and thinning along the is! Caliber Semi-Auto rifle all parts matching, including wooden stock and top the! Front sight marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons cartouche on right mid stock face and/or access information! A P stamp where it should be Military Forces which numbered over 16 million WWII! Including wooden stock and top of the receiver is marked IP which is a Saginaw Carbine. Stamped UNDERWOOD on the metal shows scrapes, scratches, and discoloration from oil residue and.. Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 carbines but not. May have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned in acceptable condition at time...
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